129. Dating After Divorce: Sarah's Trepidation

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Unknown Speaker (0:28): Terms apply on covered repairs.

Unknown Speaker (0:36): Hey. Welcome to tell me how you're mighty, real talk about cheating. I'm Tracy Schorn, the blogger known as chump lady, where I implore people to leave cheaters and gain lives.

Unknown Speaker (0:46): And I'm Sarah Gorel, radio broadcaster by day, single mother of four. And thirteen years ago, my ex walked out on his family for his affair partner. And it didn't feel like it at the time, but my life is so much better without him.

Sarah Gorel (0:58): And we're here to tell you that you are mighty. We survived infidelity, and you can too. And this is our podcast. Welcome. Hey.

Sarah Gorel (1:10): Well, the episode this week, we are going to talk about I feel like we need foreboding music. Dating after divorce, which there's a lot of bad stories out there. And, Sarah, I heard you have a few. I had a few, but I have to say upfront. I'm remarried happily, but I hate dating.

Unknown Speaker (1:32): So we'll have a lot to discuss. Have you dipped your toes in the dating waters?

Unknown Speaker (1:37): So let me tell you my story. So my husband left twelve, thirteen years ago now, so that is a long time. But at the time, I had four very young children and there wasn't much time to be gadding around dating. My initial thought was I'll join a dating website. I almost wanted it in that kind of, well, you've got someone new, so I want to find someone new and prove that I could also find someone else.

Unknown Speaker (1:57): And of course, it was very difficult because for a start, I realized that my pickings were slim because not many people wanted to take on, and I'm using that in their language up their mind, someone with four children. So I thought, No. Let's forget about this. I've got my work to bring these children up, I'm and gonna get on with it and I'm not going to venture into the dating world. I was dispatched off by a producer speed dating at work, which was a horrifying experience in itself.

Unknown Speaker (2:23): And I just thought, no, that's it. I'm happy on my own. It's all fine. I'm not going to validate myself by finding a partner. And a few people have kind of looked at me and you know when people tilt their head at you and go, oh, are you going to find yourself a new man?

Unknown Speaker (2:38): Usually, people that have got the most inadequate men themselves are the people that go, go and get yourself one of these. No. I don't want one like you've got. Thank you very much. That was my philosophy on it.

Unknown Speaker (2:48): And then I had a bit of a moment a couple of weeks ago where I suddenly thought my youngest son has only got another couple of years at home, second youngest is off to university in September, others have gone and I thought I'm going to be here on my own with the cat, with the needy cat. I'm going to have to do something about this. So I thought I know what I'll do. I will sign up for online dating.

Unknown Speaker (3:12): Yeah. How'd it go?

Unknown Speaker (3:13): Well, I haven't done the paid subscription yet. I've just done the free one, which means that I can't message a lot of people back.

Sarah Gorel (3:19): Oh, no. No. No. That's a rookie mistake, man. Rookie.

Sarah Gorel (3:22): You're getting bottom of the barrel there. Don't do the free ones.

Unknown Speaker (3:25): Well, you sign up and you pay and they give you all these matches and they say, but you can't speak to any of them until you join up, which is fine because I don't actually want to speak to any of them. So it's kind of quite a wise financial decision. What was quite interesting and I don't like to consider myself ageist but I do not want to go out with a 75 year old man that is quite significantly older than me and it is someone who is at a very different life stage to me and it is someone who is not going to relate to my teenage kids. So I'm more interested in finding somebody of my own age and this is why I'd like to hear other people's experiences. I want you to guide me through this because I'm new to this.

Unknown Speaker (4:06): I haven't dated for thirteen years. Oh, Lord. I've focused completely on my children. And, you know, I've had some dubious offers, but I've not been interested. I think when you've been burnt once, you're very, very careful afterwards.

Unknown Speaker (4:19): So I would like to hear from people about your experiences of dating after divorce. What it was like, you know, because you've kind of got rid of somebody who's proved themselves not to be good enough for you. But do you just find that there's a long queue of other dysfunctional individuals ready to take their place? So just to give you an example of my online dating, and I know people suddenly get cross with us and they go, oh, you talk about everything from the female perspective, and there are men that are cheated on as well. And I completely get that.

Unknown Speaker (4:48): So I'm happy to hear men's examples of dating stories, but I'm talking about this from the perspective of a woman, right? Okay. So very popular amongst the 75 age group. As I say, that is older than I am.

Unknown Speaker (5:01): Oh, dear. And then

Unknown Speaker (5:03): I look at men who are my sort of age and their criteria is, well, they might like to have children one day and they're looking sort of more towards the 30, you know, twenty years younger than them. And you say, on what planet do you become single in, I don't know, your forties or your fifties, suddenly you are just astonishingly attractive to people twenty years younger than you, even though you might have not have been the most attractive individual in the first place?

Sarah Gorel (5:27): Well, that that's when they tend to go overseas. You know, they get the mail order brides. They go become sex tourists. I don't know. I read too much of my mail, but there's a lot of those men that want big age gaps and rude mares.

Unknown Speaker (5:42): Why? Why, though? I don't understand it.

Sarah Gorel (5:45): Why? Patriarchy. I mean, I know I oh, now I'm gonna be the hairy legged feminazi or whatever for saying that. But, yeah, I think some of them have this idea that they're gonna find a wife appliance. They're gonna find someone who's gonna raise their offspring and do all the the adulting for them and and understand.

Unknown Speaker (6:05): But they don't want a partner. They want an ego boost.

Sarah Gorel (6:08): Yeah. They want an ego boost, and they they want subservience. And, yeah, I think there's some people, especially, okay, if you're looking at the 75 contingent or the 60, the 50 year olds, I think a lot of them think it's my right and due that I deserve a wife appliance. I deserve a girlfriend appliance. And I don't want it to be equal, and I don't wanna have a partner that I respect or like.

Sarah Gorel (6:32): I wanna be king of the castle. And I think a lot of women don't put up with that shit anymore. Thank God. We don't wanna be trad wise.

Unknown Speaker (6:39): Clearly, are a lot of men online on dating websites that think they do. So what I find quite interesting is and as I said, I'm not ageist. I've got friends across the age spectrum. But if I was going to go for a new partner, I'd like someone of a similar age to me. Anyway, so this man approaches me and he said he was 75.

Unknown Speaker (6:56): He looked quite significantly older, to be honest. And he described himself as dancing Dave. To be honest, it looked like the only sort of dancing that he did was in a residential daycare center for older people. This was the thought that crossed my mind when I got this message from him. And I thought, oh, I'm awful.

Unknown Speaker (7:10): I'm being ageist. But then I thought, no. No. He's being ageist. Because what about the 75 year old women out there that might want to meet him, someone of a similar age?

Unknown Speaker (7:18): Who do they get left?

Sarah Gorel (7:20): Dave's probably, sown his wild oats with all those ladies too. I I don't think Dave is just exclusively writing to you. Dave probably has a stable of ladies. There's a lot of women.

Unknown Speaker (7:31): But not of his own age because his top limit was twenty years younger than him. Oh. So he's not approaching them because they're too old for him even though he's the same age as them. It just makes me really cross. And I don't understand it because you sort of think if I was with someone that's similar to my son, I'd feel really old and quite embarrassed to be hanging around with them and wondering what people were thinking of me.

Unknown Speaker (7:55): It would just be a bit odd. I read this article before I came to talk to you today and it said this. This was about someone who'd written an article about online dating. It said, Mature single men, brackets and I'm generalizing, appear imbued with quite extraordinary self confidence. As the patriarchy is still in charge, I suppose this is because they've always been told that they're marvelous.

Unknown Speaker (8:20): Women don't often have this innate self love, and cultivating this is my first piece of advice.

Sarah Gorel (8:26): Yeah. I think that's absolute you do have to have a lot of self love. You've got to have a really thick skin to get out there and date. I've been in those trenches. You gotta dump and be dumped.

Sarah Gorel (8:38): You have to be okay with doing the dumping and being dumped.

Unknown Speaker (8:41): You have to wade yourself through some quite extraordinary situations though, don't you? I'll give you an example from my friend who has now found somebody through online dating, but she had to go through some quite traumatic date experiences in order to get there. So one man she went out with, they arrived and they were meeting for a coffee. It's always a safe option, isn't it? So he arrives and his first words to her was to eye up her breasts and say, Oh, those are lovely.

Unknown Speaker (9:08): This is in a coffee shop. And so she kind of went, Well, I don't know what you say when someone says that. She said, Oh, thank you very much. And then he said, Oh, just to let you know, I do have a stomach disorder. Would you like to have a listen?

Unknown Speaker (9:23): What?

Unknown Speaker (9:24): No, no, no, no. No. Does he have a stethoscope?

Unknown Speaker (9:27): How do you respond to that? No. So this man thought his his stomach was so fascinating that someone that he'd only just met might like to have a listen to the goings on in there.

Unknown Speaker (9:38): Yeah. What do you do at that point? Do you get up and politely excuse yourself, go to the bathroom, and run out the back exit? I look forward to hearing people's experiences and what they do.

Unknown Speaker (9:47): Well, I I just want to feel that I'm not alone in this because this has quite traumatized me because I've retreated so I want some advice. I want people to help me with the next steps.

Sarah Gorel (9:56): Okay, well I'll give you some advice because I've been in the trenches twice here And I I have to say, I hate dating. So take it with a grain of salt because I really suck at dating. But I did learn some things about it. But dump and be dumped. You have to be able to dump and be dumped.

Sarah Gorel (10:12): The other thing is a 75 year old, they've got filters, man. He should never be allowed to write to you. You need to put that you want age appropriate people on your dating sites. And the other thing is, look, there's gonna be some freaks if you're out there. But in my experience, I married the freaks.

Sarah Gorel (10:29): That that's my bad. But a lot of times, we'll go out on dates with people, and they're not bad people. Right? They're single. They're out there.

Sarah Gorel (10:36): They're just not a good fit for you. You know? And it's not you being superficial or or ageist or whatever. Remember when I date with a guy and Peter seemed nice enough. But he told me at some point pretty early on that he doesn't read anything.

Sarah Gorel (10:48): I mean, like, doesn't read period. Like, he knew how to read. He was literate. But and I thought, I can't date someone who doesn't read. For me, that's a deal breaker.

Sarah Gorel (10:56): Now some people would think that's really silly, but you gotta know what your deal breakers are. You can't be chumpy. You have to have the boundaries to enforce that and have your script. Hey, you you seem like a nice person, but let's move on or whatever. Whatever your your exit script is.

Sarah Gorel (11:12): Just good manners. You know? Don't don't ghost people.

Unknown Speaker (11:15): It's it's interesting, though, because it's this level of entitlement. You've left one level of entitlement, and then you go along and you find that there's another there's just another one around the corner waiting for you.

Unknown Speaker (11:25): Oh, yeah.

Unknown Speaker (11:26): Another example I have. Right. Listen to this. This is again isn't me. This is when I was with my friend and we were going through these people that were suitable matches.

Unknown Speaker (11:35): And there was this man. He was a very angry looking individual, not particularly attractive, very overweight, and was about 60. Right? So fine. A lot of us carry extra pounds.

Unknown Speaker (11:47): Many 60 year olds, very dateable. In capital letters, he had written, I do not want fat women, women over 40. And there was just this long list. And you kind of think, hang on a minute. That's all well and good you saying that.

Unknown Speaker (12:00): But you are all the things that you're saying you don't want. And then he said, I've had over 2,000 views on my profile, so I know that I'm popular. And it's like, no. But you're not popular because you're still on here with your 2,000 views. People have looked and they've gone on their merry way because they don't want all this carry on.

Sarah Gorel (12:17): No. They they're looking to laugh at you, dude. That's why you're viral because you're ridiculous. But to that point, there's my bad date story. One date with this guy, and it was, I don't know, in a beer garden or something, I don't know.

Sarah Gorel (12:29): And I have to say too, it's okay not to date. And you were raising kids at that time I was raising kids. I'm like, I'm working. I have a it's like a big fucking effort to get out the house and go date. So I expect to, you know, maybe waste my time.

Sarah Gorel (12:44): I have a pleasant time anyway. I drive out to this beer garden or something. And this guy, he looks at me. And I'm saying this was some time ago, right? Younger and prettier than I am now.

Sarah Gorel (12:55): I generally know what my zip code is, how my stock trades or whatever. And I look at this guy, he looks at me and the disappointment on his face. And he looked like a boiled potato, Sarah. He looked like a boiled potato in a chair. He was lumpy, bald, pasty.

Sarah Gorel (13:17): And he looked at me like, you're no supermodel. I think we had like ten minutes of awkward conversation, and I got up and I left. And I think I wrote about it somewhere, the boiled potato that rejected me on a date. And I thought, oh, sir, I am not conceded, but you are nowhere near in my area.

Unknown Speaker (13:37): And also, I think we would be more forgiving. So if someone wasn't terribly good looking, but they were a great personality and I wouldn't hide them up and down and go, oh, no. You're too fat. You're too old. Well, I would say you're too old is is about wanting somebody that's got the same life experience, but it's just a bare faced cheek of it.

Unknown Speaker (13:54): I was watching something the other day. Have you watched Love Under the Knife, Bad Surgeon?

Unknown Speaker (13:59): No. I could never watch such a thing.

Unknown Speaker (14:01): Oh, you need to watch Netflix. So this this is the doctor who got involved in a relationship with a journalist, and it was just astonishing what he told her. So he was quite a well known doctor. Everyone told him how marvellous he was all the time. And he told her some astonishing things.

Unknown Speaker (14:18): He told her that they were gonna get married by the pope, that the reason that he kept disappearing because he was a surgeon to Barack Obama and lots of lots of household names, that all these people were going to come to the wedding. And he just told this the most astonishing lies, all of which she believed. And then it transpired that when he was gadding off to go and perform surgery on these big household names, he was actually he had a wife and a family somewhere else. He also had another girlfriend on the go as well.

Unknown Speaker (14:47): This is a typical day at Chump Lady, Sarah. These are the stories I get all the time. What is staggering when I when

Unknown Speaker (14:54): I watch this and and you just think, hey, these people make the most ludicrous stories sound convincing. People believe them.

Sarah Gorel (15:03): People want to believe that they're special. And I think that's one of the really you really have to shore yourself up if you're gonna get out there and date. Because on the one hand, normal people, I'm not talking the freaks and the con artists and stuff, but normal people, you wanna believe at some level that you are special, that you are lovable, that somebody would choose you. And that's beautiful. That's good.

Sarah Gorel (15:25): You don't want the chumpy mentality of crumbs and, you know, am I good enough? Do I have to work hard to have somebody love me? We're all worthy of love. We're all good people. But I think a con artist or something makes you think that you're lucky to be with them.

Sarah Gorel (15:42): They have this air of exclusivity. Like this guy is like, I'm the surgeon to Barack Obama. I mean, whatever. But when they have so much confidence, you think, well, who would lie if that weren't true? Know, that's just such an outrageous thing to say if it wasn't true.

Sarah Gorel (15:56): Right? So you have to go into dating with a lot of scepticism. And I always say, pay attention to character. Date for character. Just look at the small tells about people.

Sarah Gorel (16:07): And that takes time and that takes investment. And in a busy life, a busy world, it's hard to go slow, right? I just think the whole dating, I think online dating, I think all of it's kind of fucked up. And I'll say the way I met my husband was very slowly and not looking as dating. So do the undating.

Unknown Speaker (16:28): It's part of though, isn't it? Because when you're like in your twenties or your teens, you kind of naturally meet people of similar age backgrounds. And when you get older, all the good ones seem to be married off. And what's becoming re available? Are the people, you know, that have cheated on this?

Sarah Gorel (16:44): There are men chumps. My husband was chumped. I've met several very nice men in the community that have been chumped. And I here's the thing, though. I think those guys, those good guys, those guys who loved with their whole hearts who kind of hang back, I don't think they're Rico Suave.

Sarah Gorel (17:01): I don't think they tend to be out on the dance floor or in your dating profiles or whatever. I think they tend to keep themselves to themselves. I think they're harder to draw out. So I think the good old fashioned, you know, go to a bar, go to work, meet a friend. I also just think, I mean, you're never too old for love.

Sarah Gorel (17:19): But I tell Paul, you are the last and final husband. If something happens to you, it's gonna be me and the dog. I'll be very happy to be alone with my hobbies.

Unknown Speaker (17:28): I know. And I think it becomes harder to compromise as well as you get older. I've got a lot of people that say to me, it's not my friends who say, oh, if I was in your position, that would be it. I'm not not going through all this dating again. The other advice I've got for people that men on dating websites.

Unknown Speaker (17:43): Firstly, don't take a picture of yourself with the urinals in the background. What's that all about? I've seen profile pictures where people have taken the the their picture clearly in the pub toilets or something. She got the urinals in the background. The other one that seems to be quite a common thing is people holding aloft a large fish.

Unknown Speaker (18:00): What is that all about?

Unknown Speaker (18:01): Oh, the fish is that that's a cliche. But the urinals, as we say it here in The US, I have never heard of that.

Unknown Speaker (18:08): Oh, I've seen that. Yeah. I've seen that said

Sarah Gorel (18:11): Are we expecting them to whip their dicks out or something? Is that what's implied?

Unknown Speaker (18:15): I'm not no idea what they're up to, but it makes me instantly suspicious. The other thing that I noted on this dating website is that some of them, they were already in a relationship, but they were like, my wife has an understanding, so, you know, open to other relationships. I think it's highly unlikely that your wife does have an understanding and I doubt for a second your wife knows that you're on here and gadding around looking for extra individuals in your life. I find that quite interesting.

Sarah Gorel (18:42): Yeah. That's another category you need to filter out. If anybody says it's complicated, no. You're a busy adult. You don't have time for complicated.

Unknown Speaker (18:51): So this is the the whole point of today is I'm thinking, right. Let's hear how other people have got on. Is it just me? Is there some wise advice? What is is it actually like?

Unknown Speaker (19:00): Has it led to true love for you? Or did you go from one bad relationship to another one as a result of this?

Sarah Gorel (19:08): Well, I wanna say I went from one bad relationship to another one. I was married twice before. I spent a lot of time. So look. I I'm a two time loser.

Sarah Gorel (19:18): So whatever your stories are, if you still have hope in your heart, you can still find love if you're open to it. It's just a hell of a time suck, right, at this stage of life?

Unknown Speaker (19:28): It is. I'm busy. That's the problem. I'm busy.

Unknown Speaker (19:31): You got friends that'll fix set you up? Or

Unknown Speaker (19:34): I have got friends, but I live in a toy village where most people are in couples. I don't see many single men. Single men that do become available suddenly it's it's funny. It's it's a difference that say a single man moves to the village, there's suddenly a great flurry of women who are competing for this one man.

Unknown Speaker (19:50): Throwing the drankage of seven.

Unknown Speaker (19:52): Like you said, there are men chumps and I know there are men out there but obviously I'm saying this from a perspective of a woman so but I'm quite happy to hear from men that have had equally bad bad experiences. So where do I go now? That that's what I want advice for next week.

Unknown Speaker (20:07): Okay. What to do? Because, you know, at the end of the day, advice, maybe they're going give you stupid advice, wear lipstick and comb your hair or something. You're like, I don't want to do that. I don't know.

Unknown Speaker (20:16): I want

Unknown Speaker (20:17): to hear advice from other people that have navigated this, other people that have dated after DeBoer, whether it's get on with it. I want to hear your stories. Oh, want to

Sarah Gorel (20:24): hear the stories, but I've had them on the blog and you're going to hear a lot of freak stories. I don't want people to go away like I'm depressed about humankind because we have enough of that.

Unknown Speaker (20:33): Yeah. But I want to hear the stories so that I can know that I'm not alone in them.

Unknown Speaker (20:37): Okay. Send us some good ones too if you found true love how you did it, because we're gonna get a lot of freak stories. Alright. Send us your freak stories. Reach out to us.

Sarah Gorel (20:51): You can check us out at tellmehowyou'remighty.com, or check out the blog at chumplady.com. I'm always open to your suggestions there.