132. Advice About Dating Post-Divorce

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Unknown Speaker (0:36): Hey. Welcome to tell me

Unknown Speaker (0:37): how you're mighty, real talk about cheating. I'm Tracy Schorn, the blogger known as chump lady, where I implore people to leave cheaters and gain lives.

Unknown Speaker (0:46): And I'm Sarah Gorel, radio broadcaster by day, single mother of four. And thirteen years ago, my ex walked out on his family for his affair partner. And it didn't feel like it at the time, but my life is so much better without him.

Unknown Speaker (0:58): And we're here to tell you that you are mighty. We survived infidelity, and you can too. And this is our podcast. Welcome. This week, we're gonna talk about dating as we promised from our previous episode where Sarah was thinking about maybe just perhaps dipping her toe into the dating waters.

Unknown Speaker (1:19): So we asked you all for your stories and you were all remarkably positive, which I was not expecting. Sarah, what did you think we were going to get? Cause I thought we were going to get a bunch of dick pic stories.

Tracy Schorn (1:31): Oh, I thought it was going to be a lot more traumatic than this but actually they are really positive. It's made me feel a bit inadequate. Maybe it's just me. I think you have to persevere though. I think you have to have a bit more resilience than me and not just go, oh no, this is awful, after about ten minutes and warts off.

Tracy Schorn (1:49): I think some of these stories indicate that you have to stick with it. You have to wade through some awful stuff to get to the positive one.

Sarah Gorel (1:56): Yeah. Well, I go back to my first rule of dump and be dumped. Like, you have to be really okay with nexting and blocking and moving forward. And it's a skill set. I mean, I developed it, but it never felt normal to me.

Sarah Gorel (2:11): I'm not a good multitasker that way with people, you know. And I think when you're coming out of being chumped, you're kind of wobbly to begin with. And in my case, I was single parent and so that you're extra responsible and you don't have a ton of time. So it's hard to begin with. It's even harder when you have adult life challenges on top of it.

Sarah Gorel (2:31): So I salute these people who who made it work for them. So should we listen to Suzette? We got some stories here.

Caller 1 (2:39): I had no intentions of getting into a relationship or even dating. But when I discovered XFW's two and a half year affair with a significantly younger woman, oh, by the way, she was seven months pregnant at the time, he cited some of the reasons why he decided to start cheating on me as I was no fun and I made him feel old, period. So because I had been really devastated by all this discovery, I had lost a a significant amount of weight and I got back into running so that I could help with my feelings. I ended up looking great and suddenly I decided that even though I didn't need anyone, I did want to go out on a few dates and just feel pretty, twirl my hair, bat my eyelashes, and wear heels. So I started doing that.

Caller 1 (3:30): Long story short, as I went on some awful, awful dates, I also started getting to go on some pretty good dates with some pretty good guys. I met some great, great guys, and eventually I met my now fiance. He was not the guy that I would have normally dated, but he is strong, he is sensitive, he is fun, and he thinks I'm so much fun, and he thinks I actually make him feel young. So I guess the moral of the story is that one person's opinion isn't going to be the end all, be all.

Tracy Schorn (4:01): I think this highlights my point. She went on some awful, awful date. So she waded through the bad ones to get to the good ones. She has more patience and resilience than I have. I haven't even been on any dates.

Unknown Speaker (4:13): I've been put off already.

Unknown Speaker (4:14): I think it's all about your expectations. And the way that her ex husband dumped her that like, you make me feel old. Well, what the fuck, dude? You're aging. I mean, unless you have a time machine or something, we're all aging.

Sarah Gorel (4:26): I like how she concluded it that this is just one fuckwits opinion about your worth. And that's it. And consider the source, right? This is a person who has terrible values if they're cheating and deceiving and having a double life. Like, why do we care what they think?

Sarah Gorel (4:42): We care because we invested a lot of time in ourselves into them. But in the big picture, it's just one person, and they're dumb.

Tracy Schorn (4:50): It is hard, though, because that person has been the center of your world or someone that you've trusted absolutely or had children with or invested your life in. You know? And I really feel for people. Fortunately, mine left when my children were quite young, but sometimes you hear stories of people who've had a whole life together, you know, adult children, grandchildren, and suddenly they find that their ex has been up to all sorts of antics.

Sarah Gorel (5:11): Yeah. Those stories are on the blog every day. Yeah. It's true, but I don't know. My cynical take is, well, then you don't have to go through co parenting with a fuckwit.

Unknown Speaker (5:22): You don't have to, get stiffed on the child support. The hard work of raising children is done for good or for ill. And also, you don't have to find a babysitter if you wanna go out on a date with a dud.

Tracy Schorn (5:32): This is true. There's always a positive. But I like that story because it does show. I suppose if you're really determined you're gonna find you're happy ever after, then you probably will.

Unknown Speaker (5:41): Yeah. And I like too that she was kind of open minded and sounds like she dated for character, you know, that he's sensitive and he's fun and he's strong and he's not somebody that I would have chosen before. Like, think you make different adult choices than you do when you're perhaps younger, and I like that. I like that she she was open to his better qualities.

Tracy Schorn (6:01): Let's hear another one. This is Angelina's story.

Caller 2 (6:04): I think my best story is I met someone that lived locally. It turns out he was dating one of my neighbors and then two other women at the same time. And then when he started dating me, I confronted him about the three other women, and we all found out about each other. And so we all dropped him, and we're all really good friends now.

Unknown Speaker (6:30): This one's not positive in the dating sense. He was a cat. No. But I I like how they bonded over it.

Tracy Schorn (6:35): But how do these people find the time? This is just astonishing. So dating a neighbor, two other women, and you just think, really? Where do these people get their energy from?

Unknown Speaker (6:45): Well, also, how did he not think they were gonna compare notes? That's a very small radius. I mean, you're dating neighbors. Like, did they not think that they were gonna not talk to one another? But also, yes.

Sarah Gorel (6:56): I don't know how anyone finds the time for a double life. This is also my argument around polyamory, which is ethical. You know, I suppose if you are everybody's on board, but I also just don't get the time management of it either. I don't have enough time. I don't think you have enough time.

Sarah Gorel (7:11): I like, how could you be Rico Suave? How could you be a international woman of mystery?

Tracy Schorn (7:18): It's a complete mystery how these people do it, that they do and why they do it as well. It sounds exhausting.

Sarah Gorel (7:25): I think and okay. And I'm not a shrink. I'm just a lady with a blog who's read a lot of stories, but this is my theory. I think they get high on the deceit. I think the deceit is the point.

Sarah Gorel (7:37): I think it's a power trip. I think they enjoy it. And I think a sucker is born every minute. And if they get busted, like these women busted and he's like, oh, there's three more. Maybe they'll become friends and he'll, you know, ad infinitum.

Sarah Gorel (7:49): He'll just keep doing this because it works for him because he likes it, because he enjoys it. I don't think they feel exhausted by it. I I think it it, feeds them. It's just you're just not wired that way. Thank goodness.

Tracy Schorn (8:01): No. It's a constant pursuit for an ego massage, isn't it? And maybe that you know, you you've got boundless energy when you're looking for that in life.

Unknown Speaker (8:08): Yeah. Or also just superficial. You know, they just want all the the butterflies that you have at the beginning and getting to know you. And, you know, that guy can tell his stupid stories, and it's unique to the person that he's meeting for the first time. But if he had an actual girlfriend, she'd be like, oh god, don't tell that story again.

Tracy Schorn (8:26): Actually, and they tend to be very good as well at delegating all the life work, the hard work in life to somebody else who's probably picking up all the pieces elsewhere. So that's where they find the time and the energy from.

Unknown Speaker (8:36): Yeah. Angelina didn't mention that, but you do have to wonder, is that guy married? Does he have a wife appliance at home while he's off?

Unknown Speaker (8:42): Yes. Possibly. Let's hear another one. This is a nice positive one.

Caller 3 (8:46): After my numerous D days, I was super hungry for validation and signed up for the apps. But it was so stressful for me. I didn't even make it to a first date. Not a good way to start dating. And then after I got out of Fuckwood's close vicinity, I definitely was ready.

Caller 3 (9:07): I had a lot of fun. First date, I just wanted to see if I can still talk to people, which I definitely could. I went out for the first time with someone I wasn't even attracted to just to find out how it went, and it went great. And that gave me a lot of confidence to just have some fun. And then the red flags are just everywhere.

Caller 3 (9:29): Be aware. And I am a lot more cautious now. But that's good.

Sarah Gorel (9:34): This is our hot dog lady. Remember the the woman who told us that her ex said that having sex with her was like sticking a hot dog in a hallway or something awful? She said that other people have experienced her hallway and found it just fine. Thank you very much.

Unknown Speaker (9:48): Where on earth does someone come up with that kind of analogy from? You know, there's something very dysfunctional about a mind that comes up with that, and then not only comes up with that, but says it to someone.

Unknown Speaker (9:58): I know, but I love it did not destroy her. She's up. She's back. She's stronger than ever. You know?

Unknown Speaker (10:05): She's got confidence. She's out there having fun. I love it.

Tracy Schorn (10:08): Do you think it's getting past that? Because she says that it was just seeing if you could still talk to people, if you you can still do it. And she did, even though it wasn't a great attraction. Is that the way? Just get out there and do it.

Tracy Schorn (10:19): Your confidence will build even if you don't meet the love of your life initially.

Unknown Speaker (10:24): Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you'll never know if you don't try, and I think that it can go either way. You can get out there. I told my potato story when we talked about dating before, where if I went out there full of confidence and then the guys, you know, looks at me like I'm the disappointment and he looks like a boiled potato.

Sarah Gorel (10:38): You can't let it wobble you. You have to be resilient to date. And I think this woman had been through like a blast furnace of rejection. Her ex said like the worst possible thing he could say to her, he wanted to live in her mind. He wanted to like scorch earth and leave her with issues.

Sarah Gorel (10:58): And she rejected that. So like, what can anyone else do to hurt her? Because she shouldn't be brave. She survived that. What does anybody else have?

Sarah Gorel (11:06): You may as well get out there. And she found out that she's attractive and fun.

Unknown Speaker (11:10): So yay. Let's hear from Emily.

Caller 5 (11:13): I was not looking to date. I was going to be a crazy cat lady, and I was fully content with that scenario. I actually met someone on Trump Nation. It started with a few jokes back and forth on the posts, then we decided to collab on a playlist. We started talking and never stopped.

Caller 5 (11:31): Now six months later, there's still no playlist, but he's back from deployment. And tomorrow, we'll be meeting in person for the first time.

Sarah Gorel (11:40): I like the story. And more done, I'm gonna tell you the update. So people are meeting at Chump Nation. They're meeting on my site and my social media and, like, having dates. I I am intrigued.

Sarah Gorel (11:50): Tell me more. Does anybody else met anybody through this community? That's kinda wild. But, we want a postscript, so when we get through these. But I like that she met somebody, a fellow chump.

Tracy Schorn (12:02): Yeah. And, you know, obviously you got that in common and then you realize that there's a lot more. I like the starting off by saying I was gonna be a crazy cat lady. I don't react to there's anything wrong with being a crazy cat lady. I've got a cat and although they're supposed to be aloof and unreasonable and actually sometimes disloyal, I'm finding that my cat is very unaloof and has quite a lot of empathy and is quite loyal.

Unknown Speaker (12:25): So there's nothing wrong with being a crazy cat lady at all.

Unknown Speaker (12:27): Yeah? Do you self identify as a crazy cat lady?

Tracy Schorn (12:30): Yes, I think I do. I think I'd rather be a crazy cat lady than enter this world of dating at the moment. I might change my mind but at the moment after what I've experienced. Although some of these stories I'm thinking, yeah, maybe. Maybe these people are turning me a little bit but not enough to actually go there.

Unknown Speaker (12:48): Maybe there's a crazy cat man out there for you.

Tracy Schorn (12:51): Well no because then that will be the problem is that cats don't tend to get on with one another. You know, if you were trying to blend cat families, that would be tricky.

Unknown Speaker (12:59): What do you is a gerbil man?

Unknown Speaker (13:01): That would be even more tricky gerbils than cats. Come on, this isn't working well. Combining your animal empires. That's not going to end well, is it?

Unknown Speaker (13:09): You've got to keep an open mind, Sarah.

Unknown Speaker (13:11): I don't think I want to go out with someone that keeps gerbils. Anybody over the age of nine that keeps gerbils, I'm a little suspicious. I'm very close minded. I'm just proving here that, you know, that this is why probably I'm single.

Unknown Speaker (13:23): The cat would love it if he dated a gerbil. Okay. We've got another story for Michelle here.

Caller 4 (13:29): I had no intention of ever dating again after Fuckwit left me. And it was my therapist that pushed me in the direction of giving it a try. It was just after my divorce was final. I had no intention of doing anything before then. And my therapist really pushed me into it.

Caller 4 (13:45): And then I also had a friend who had said, you know, go on the dating apps. Be really safe about it. Block anybody who's creepy in any way or has any red flags. And she said, you know, just go out there because you'll go on these dates with actually nice men who will tell you that you're great, and, you know, you'll get your confidence back and maybe meet somebody. And if you don't, who cares?

Caller 4 (14:05): And that's how I approached it. I ended up, you know, a couple months after my divorce was final and my therapist telling me to go out there. I went on j day because I'm Jewish, and I went out with five different guys, and they were all nice. Everything was fine. They all asked for second dates with me, which was lovely.

Caller 4 (14:24): And one of them, I'm still with almost ten years later. So now just give it a try, but be safe about it. And, seriously, I must have blocked, you know, 80% of the guys. Any dick pics were a no, and anybody who said anything that was derogatory were blocked right away. So I recommend trying.

Unknown Speaker (14:44): I love that the therapist Michelle's therapist is telling her to date. I'm like, I thought they were all just supposed to listen and ask you how you feel about that. This shrink is out there giving prescriptive to do list. Go make a dating profile.

Tracy Schorn (14:58): Think what's great here as well is that, again, I think the theme running through this is give it a go. Just keep going and be ruthless. Block people that you think haven't got anything to offer. Give it a try. Go on a date.

Unknown Speaker (15:11): But if it's not right, stop right there.

Sarah Gorel (15:14): Yeah. She says, you know, if it doesn't work out, who cares? Who cares? I mean, I have the proper attitude. Don't get too invested too early.

Sarah Gorel (15:23): It's just coffee. It's just meeting somebody. You meet people probably every day. Just roll with it. And she did.

Sarah Gorel (15:30): And she found a nice gentleman who's still her boyfriend ten years later. I think that's great. I also like that, you know, we don't hear enough of those stories. It's not that you have to partner up again and have kids again or be married again. And there's nothing wrong if you want that.

Sarah Gorel (15:44): And there's nothing wrong if you wanna stay single forever, but that she just has a nice gentleman companion. I think that that that's really cool.

Tracy Schorn (15:51): This is the thing. See, I think come to you set in my ways, I don't want anyone messing with my interior design or telling me what I can do in my own house or when I can go out or, you know, getting cross if I'm out with my friends. There's a lot to give up from being single.

Unknown Speaker (16:05): Yeah. But maybe he could just be arm candy. Maybe he could just take you to the movies or, you know, a cotillion, just something, wear a nice press shirt. I don't know if everyone's satisfied with that arrangement, but I like to hear that there are people out there making it work because I I think that's great.

Tracy Schorn (16:19): I like that idea. Yeah. It's like these celebrities you hear about that are so rich. They don't worry about buying two houses, and they live next door rather than in the same house.

Sarah Gorel (16:27): Oh, okay. Yeah. Like, I I think non celebrities do that. You know, they have the duplex. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (16:33): It was, yeah, that's a thing. I've seen articles about that. I don't know anybody who's done it in real life, but it could happen. I don't know. Tell her maybe people come in with their creative post divorce dating life, separate house boyfriend stories, girlfriend stories.

Unknown Speaker (16:48): Right. And we've got one more. Is it just one more we have now?

Unknown Speaker (16:51): Well, yes. And then we're gonna do, I'm gonna tell you the follow-up from Emily, how her date went. Cause I asked and I found out. So our last one here is Ellis.

Caller 6 (16:59): I would say to any chumps, particularly women, that you could do a lot worse than looking at doctor Jenny Young's new book, Burn the Haystack, which gives you some really good advice and some practical tools for identifying rhetorical patterns used by men with problematic behaviors. And if you follow her advice, I think you're less likely to invest your time in men who really don't deserve it.

Sarah Gorel (17:28): I heard a lot in the comments that I got, not the voice mails that we missed. A lot of people mentioned this burn the haystack book by doctor Jen Young. And she's someone we should reach out to. Maybe we can get her on the podcast. I don't know if it's it's the bestseller in The UK, but it it is here.

Sarah Gorel (17:43): And she's a linguist. She's a PhD and she analyzed men's dating profiles and came up with like a feminist dating strategy that if men do these certain things, then block move on And they even have their own lingo and, I guess, go check out burn the haystack. But one of the red flags was somebody tests your boundaries. Like, they'll send a dick pic or they don't know you and they say something really off color. And then they immediately sort of apologize.

Unknown Speaker (18:13): Oh, that that that's not the real me. Oh, I I just don't know what overcame me. And they sort of test like how chumpy you are. You know, how bad do you want it? Will you forgive them?

Sarah Gorel (18:23): Will you move on? And according to this linguist, that these guys wind up being fuckwits. So ex them. I I love that there's a cheat code to this. I'm curious to hear if anybody's tried this burn haystack and, if it worked for them.

Unknown Speaker (18:37): What do you think about that? You think that you can come up with a list of red flags to avoid?

Tracy Schorn (18:42): It's interesting, isn't it? Because if you've already been somebody that has experienced the red flags and ignored them the first time around, I suppose there's two lines of thought. Firstly, are you somebody who is more likely to see the good in someone and ignore the red flags, or are you someone who has learnt by what you've been through and won't ever do it again? I don't know because I haven't been there yet.

Unknown Speaker (19:03): Okay. Well, after all this coaching, Sarah, I think you gotta try it and report back. You know? Maybe you can tell us your potato story. Maybe you can tell us your nice man who owns the wrong kind of pet story.

Unknown Speaker (19:13): I don't know. You should do it for their their social.

Tracy Schorn (19:16): There will certainly be no gerbils involved in any of this. I can tell you that much.

Unknown Speaker (19:21): You don't know. You don't know what the future holds. Could be the gerbil man of your dreams. You don't know. Okay.

Unknown Speaker (19:28): Well, now we gotta do the postscript. Like, what happened to Emily? Alright. I'm not gonna give the whole thing away. I just wanna let you know that Emily said it went really well.

Unknown Speaker (19:37): He turned out to be who he said he was. That's important. You know, he wasn't a magical goat. He wasn't catfishing you. And she said that he was sweet, thoughtful, emotionally intelligent, and wonderfully quirky in the most endearing way.

Unknown Speaker (19:50): Sounds perfect.

Unknown Speaker (19:51): Yeah. And now they've entered the very unglamorous stage of real life. You know, like, just, you know, whatever. Coordinating schedules, kids, seeing if they can go on another date. You know, I'm like, she had a win.

Sarah Gorel (20:03): So that's hopeful. That's good. Not everybody sucks. Not everybody's sending dick pics too many are. I mean, there are a lot of horror stories.

Unknown Speaker (20:13): Absolutely. And be careful. Burn the haystack, whatever you have to do. But I thought that was helpful.

Unknown Speaker (20:18): I think these are a lot more positives than I was expecting. Maybe that indicates I have a negative frame of mind, and I need to stop that kind of behavior. But not me to hear these positive stories.

Unknown Speaker (20:27): Yeah. I I don't think you're negative. I think you're rightfully cautious, but, you know, try it out. Reach out to us. You can check us out at tellmehowyou'remighty.com, or check out the blog at chumplady.com.

Unknown Speaker (20:45): I'm always open to your suggestions there.

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