125. More of Comparing Yourself to the Affair Partner

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Unknown Speaker (0:36): Hey. Welcome to tell me how you're mighty, real talk about cheating. I'm Tracy Shorn, the blogger known as chump lady, where I implore people to leave cheaters and gain lives.

Unknown Speaker (0:46): And I'm Sarah Gorel, radio broadcaster by day, single mother of four. And thirteen years ago, my ex walked out on his family for his affair partner. And it didn't feel like it at the time, but my life is so much better without him.

Unknown Speaker (0:58): And we're here to tell you that you are mighty. We survived infidelity, and you can too. And this is our podcast. Welcome. And we're back again, and we're doing episode number two of comparing yourself to the affair partner.

Unknown Speaker (1:13): We got so many submissions when we put this question out there that we had to do it again. I mean, it's a stage we all go through, and there's probably somebody listening to this who is comparing themselves to an affair partner right now, and we want you to stop.

Speaker 2 (1:28): There's that expression, isn't there, comparison is the thief of joy. And particularly, I think that is amplified by a 100 when it comes to comparing yourself to someone who your partner has had an affair with.

Unknown Speaker (1:40): Yeah. You're bound to compare and contrast. You're bound to, like, wonder what does this person have that I don't have. I think even when you think that, which is why the pick pick me dance is so seductive, you think, what do they have that I don't have? I have to compete or I have to become more like them or I have to find the needs that I wasn't meeting.

Unknown Speaker (1:57): You know, bad therapy encourages this. It's that you never should have been put in this position in the first place to compete. It's just the whole setup is wrong. Right? And it's not about you versus them.

Unknown Speaker (2:11): The point is cake. To the cheater, the point is having lots of people, lots of narcissistic supply, having many people compete over them and for them to feel centrality. And the only way they can keep that power game going is to make everybody, including affair partners feel off balance. So you have to have these little competitions. They're the puppet master.

Unknown Speaker (2:34): Right? Don't be puppets.

Speaker 2 (2:36): I think you're just proved by this first one today. This first one person sounds absolutely amazing. Have a listen to this.

Speaker 1 (2:43): In my case, for the longest time, I was stuck comparing myself to the other woman. I was thinking she was everything I wasn't, like younger, smarter, and thriving in the corporate world. As I finally stood back up, two things happened that changed everything. First, I just finished a massive two year project, and it was a total success. At almost 60, I jumped back into the game and proved I can still inspire a team and deliver top notch work.

Speaker 1 (3:13): And second, I used to drive myself crazy wondering how they got away with it. How a board member at a US listed company could have an affair with a colleague, promote her, and then marry her just to save face, all with zero consequences. Well, I just got the news. She was officially kicked to the curb. She was fired.

Speaker 1 (3:38): It turns out she wasn't better or smarter. She was just part of a face saving charade. I'm out there, thriving, rediscovering my power, and she's out of her job. Well, life is good.

Unknown Speaker (3:51): I have to say, how come he didn't lose his job? I'm glad she got kicked to the curb, and I'm glad there's some Schadenfreude. But, ugh, the corruption of that, you know, to have a workplace affair and everybody's like looks the other way, and then she gets shit can.

Speaker 2 (4:05): And if you turn it around as well, this is someone who sounds really inspiring, you know, leading a team and huge success. So why isn't he competing for her affections? Why is she having to go into competition despite the fact that she sounds inspirational and incredible?

Unknown Speaker (4:21): Well, think that's part of the point. I think a lot of these people, and I go back to its abuse, it's not just men, women, but we are hearing from women today is that I think there's this whole thing about tearing you down. Who do you think you are? And that's why it's a double life. It's behind your back.

Unknown Speaker (4:37): They're stabbing you. You don't know it. The knives are out. And here's this woman being fabulous and succeeding and stuff. And her husband is undermining her with affairs.

Unknown Speaker (4:47): And look, you're amazing. You're successful. You probably earn more than your husband. And what does he reward you with? Serial cheating.

Unknown Speaker (4:55): And mine, you know, I wasn't in it long enough, but, I found wife number one and wife number two. Wife number one had a PhD in chemistry. Wife number two graduated first in our law school class. I mean, were accomplished women that he cheated on. And I think that was part of the thrill for him, to bring him down a peg.

Speaker 2 (5:14): Make himself feel better than them. Yeah. You you can analyze this all you like in terms of, Oh, there's some psychological thing. I don't know what's going on here. But ultimately, they are cheating on you with somebody who largely knows that they're prepared to do that, knows that they're prepared to undermine and devalue and leave in lots of cases.

Speaker 2 (5:33): You know, I've read on your blogs people that leave women during pregnancy when they are vulnerable, when they are receiving medical treatment for things like cancer. And if someone is prepared to do that to somebody and you still think that they are a prize and you know all about that, then that says something about you as well, doesn't it?

Unknown Speaker (5:51): Yeah. You're conspiring in the abuse of an innocent. Again, it's not a stain you can wash over. That's why I get so mad when people try to put a feminist spin on being a a mistress. It's an archaic term.

Unknown Speaker (6:03): But to be the other woman to conspire in another woman's abuse makes you horrible. Now I understand that that person is also off balance and that person is in their own pick me dance to show that they're better than you. They're also competing, right? Only they know they're competing. So it's not a fair fight.

Unknown Speaker (6:22): And again, I would say there are some affair partners who don't know, then I just consider that a different form of chumptom. But if you know, and you're okay with being the dirty secret and being the bit on the side and you're okay with another person not knowing, it's a stain on your character. You're a bad person.

Unknown Speaker (6:40): Alright, let's hear more and get reaction to this one.

Speaker 3 (6:42): Being more than eight years, I hadn't really thought about her much for quite a long time. I actually ended up crying this morning, remembering, but no, I didn't compare myself to her. She was a family friend, so I knew her pretty well. I knew that she just wanted my life, and I thought he's with her now, they've got married, and if he wants to be with someone that could do that to a family, she's a 100% responsible for her role in it. He's a 100% responsible for his role in it.

Speaker 3 (7:16): It's not just a blame game, but yeah, I thought if that's what he wants, to be with someone that horrible, what she did to my kids and I, to our family, I still battle with it. Like I, it's hard to understand the man that I love wants to be with someone like that, that maybe he wasn't who I really thought he was. But, yeah, today made me cry just when I remembered some of the moments of deceit.

Unknown Speaker (7:42): I think that's a good insight. If you wanna be with someone like this, have at it. I'm sorry it stirred stuff up for her, but, yeah, there's so much, like, superficial stuff. And I think, you know, people get, again, social media, you get trapped in the perhaps the material wealth of your ex or the affair partner. They've moved on and they have bright, shiny things and you're struggling and the injustice of it really eats you up.

Unknown Speaker (8:06): But I always come back to what kind of person do you wanna be? Is this somebody you would admire? Is this someone you respect? Is this somebody who shares your values?

Speaker 2 (8:15): I do think it's particularly difficult as well when an affair partner is someone that you thought was a friend. So it's that double betrayal.

Unknown Speaker (8:21): Yeah. It's gotta be incredibly difficult. Because then you you didn't just lose your partner, and you didn't just lose your friend. You probably lost, like, the whole circle, like, everybody around you. Either they knew when they were enlisted in this conspiracy or it breaks up and then people who have not been chumped try to be neutral.

Unknown Speaker (8:40): You know, call that like the Switzerland friend. You know, we love you both. Like no drama. And I think real friends come to your side and real friends can see who's at fault here and that that's not an okay thing to do to another person. I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (8:54): I think that some Internet stalking is a common thing when you find out that your partner has an affair. And let's have a listen to what happens when you do that standard thing.

Speaker 4 (9:03): I didn't know Shmoopi, so I did the standard chumpy Internet stalking. One of the first things I noticed about Shmoopi was that she kind of looked like me, but with bigger teeth and hair. Actually, she looked more like fuckwits mom, and then I remembered how fuckwit's mom called me her daughter and people would say, actually, she looks like she could be. I always took it as a compliment because fuckwit's mom's very pretty. Then I remembered how at a wedding, was mistaken for one of his cousins.

Speaker 4 (9:30): Oh, no. Ew. To make matters worse, mother outlaw was a cheater, and Fuckwit treated both me and her very cruelly while he was cheating. I confronted Fuckwit with his mommy issues about four months after d day, and he casually said, oh, my therapist says the same thing. Sorry.

Speaker 4 (9:48): That's gross, guys.

Unknown Speaker (9:49): I think this is a case of, like, untangling the skin of fuck up in this where you're like, did they have some deep seated thing to, like, only date people who look like their mother? I don't know.

Speaker 2 (9:59): But it's true, isn't it? Quite often the affair partner looks really like the original partner. So that whole idea that you're sort of upgrading or going forward is kind of weird. You see people that have succession of very similar looking people.

Unknown Speaker (10:12): That's the thing. I think people are surprised by that. It's not uncommon. I think I did a letter recently where somebody is like completely other. You know?

Unknown Speaker (10:19): Like, we have well, we had the trans woman last week, but, you know, if somebody is a different race, different ethnicity, and they're always like, I never wanted that. And, apparently, they didn't want that. It's different, and they found someone to bludgeon you with and triangulate with. They're just using them. Like, they used you.

Unknown Speaker (10:37): And that's why I'm like, they're not special. No one's special. Sometimes you have to just hold that.

Speaker 2 (10:42): Okay. And you you listen to this story and think, right, relief away from all these dysfunctional antics. Move on. Let them all get on with their strange behavior. And, in this case, it's it's the mother-in-law of the whole lot.

Speaker 2 (10:54): Leave them all to it. So satisfied when you do that.

Unknown Speaker (10:56): Yes. Our next one, it's like, how can you compare yourself when you have this problem?

Speaker 5 (11:03): You know, I never really did compare myself to his affair partners because there were so many I couldn't keep up with it. And when he took a girlfriend to Japan, I asked my housekeeper, which one? And she said, the one without the children. I said, oh, okay. So no, I never did because it was just too exhausting and not worth my time.

Unknown Speaker (11:23): Do you know this isn't funny, but it made me laugh, that whole line saying, I said, which one? There's so many of them. Just like the idea of trying to keep a track on all these people. I mean, it must have been exhausting for him as well to have all these people on the go too. That's something I never understand.

Unknown Speaker (11:39): You can't be doing any proper grown up stuff if you're busy running around with not just one person, but multiple people. Where do you find the time?

Unknown Speaker (11:46): Right. Exactly. You must be so stressed out.

Unknown Speaker (11:49): Well, that's because your partner's doing the life admin and you're busy sort of living this, this life of an overgrown child, but it does sound exhausting.

Unknown Speaker (11:57): Right. That's why they have a housekeeper, Sarah. They need a housekeeper for all of his many, many fair partners. It's the same as like the ones we've heard of where there's just many, many sex workers. At least you realize that the pick me dance is pointless, right?

Unknown Speaker (12:10): Because there's so many to pick from and you can never be a 100 different people. It's just what they want. So really, it's not about you, is it? It kinda makes it easier to come on.

Speaker 2 (12:21): And I actually think this final one highlights the fact that the pick me dance goes both ways. So whoever wins the pick me dance ends up continuing to play the pick me dance. There's lot of dignity you have in just removing yourself from the pick me dance altogether. And I remember this actually temporarily when I thought I'd managed to lure my husband back from his affair partner, and I was so pleased with myself. I thought, look at me, I've won.

Speaker 2 (12:43): Look at me. And that lasted about, oh, I don't know, a week until I started noticing him disappearing off and texts pinging in and I found myself thinking he's back at it, isn't he? He's back with her. What's he up to? Where's he going?

Speaker 2 (12:55): What's he doing? And you find yourself as some kind of professional private investigator, sort of trying to work out where people are going and what they're doing. And so you're playing this combination of the pick me dance and someone who's trying to control their partner's behaviour, and no one wants to be in that role. I think instead of have a listen to this where, you know, this really highlights the fact that you continue to play that game.

Speaker 6 (13:17): There were two things that helped me move past comparing myself to the AP. The first one was that fuck what cheated on her from day one. And the second one was that I knew she could never say no to him or else she would become the person that he complained about me being. If he ever complained that I was too tired for sex after single handedly working a full time job taking care of the house and the three kids while he did whatever he wanted. If she ever said she was too tired, then she knew in the back of her head she could be treated just like I was if she ever nagged at him for taking out the bins.

Speaker 6 (14:00): So knowing that she had to perform for him twenty four seven for the rest of their relationship really took me relief is the best way to say it.

Unknown Speaker (14:10): Yeah. I think that is the perfect karma of, like, you win the cheater, and now you are forever in the competition of having to never complain. Never be like the ex wife. Are you too tired for sex? Oh, well, that's why I had to leave that one and go to you.

Unknown Speaker (14:29): So now you've got to be Johnny on the spot. Got to be there cleaning up all the messes and sucking that dick and making him happy. I don't know. It's like, what hell is that to win that prize? You know?

Speaker 2 (14:44): Well, this is the consequence, isn't it, of those cozy conversations where you convince someone that you, oh, I'd never do that. I'd never say that. I'm wonderful. Oh, how could she do that to you? How could she treat you like that?

Speaker 2 (14:55): And then suddenly you are the person that possibly there are those same cozy conversations going on about your behavior because that's their default position.

Unknown Speaker (15:04): Right. That's what I love about you, Sarah. You never question me where I am. You know, you're you're so cruel. Do I I wanna go to Las Vegas this weekend.

Unknown Speaker (15:12): You know, I really like that you're securing yourself. You you never check my luggage or I demand STD testing. I mean, you're just you're just I love how you roll with it. You know? Like, that's her punishment.

Unknown Speaker (15:24): She has to be the cool girl forever.

Unknown Speaker (15:27): And I think that's a good line to leave it on. That's their punishment. They have each other.

Unknown Speaker (15:32): You win. No tag backs. Reach out to us. You can check us out at tellmehowyou'remighty.com, or check out the blog at chumplady.com. I'm always open to your suggestions there.

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